Update! Spots the Space Marine has been reinstated! Read about it here and on the EFF.
First, the good news: I am now in talks with the EFF. I’m not to say anything more on it, but this development was very heartening.
So yes, there’s that. And then there’s… there’s all of you, and it’s just… it’s totally overwhelming. My WordPress site has had almost 50,000 hits in 24 hours. The post has gotten retweets from luminaries I’ve admired all my life and been written up in at least fifteen different venues, and those are only the ones I know about (I’ve started tracking them here; feel free to add yours!). Hundreds of people have left me encouraging comments or sent me warm personal emails. When Neil Gaiman retweeted the post I put my head down on my desk and cried.
I am deeply moved by your support, and very grateful. I’ve taken the next step with that phone call, and I’ll keep you updated on that as it develops. But some of you have asked what more you can do. Here are my suggestions:
• Keep talking! I’ve seen #spacemarine, #spacemarines and #savespacemarines hashtags on Twitter and Google+. I’m seeing personal blog posts pop up along with news articles and even humor; one of my favorite finds was at cheezburger.com! It all helps. And please, share your links with me. I’m collecting them!
• I’ve heard that many of you are contacting Games Workshop about this issue. If you do so, I’d ask for your courtesy when engaging them; the person receiving the email/tweet might not have anything to do with the problem. I’ve worked customer service and the impotence you feel when facing an angry customer is painful.
• Many of you have suggested I put the e-book up in some other way. You can find the e-book (all formats) on Smashwords, which allows you to sample the first 15% to see if it’s your cup of tea.
Your questions to me are accumulating faster than I can answer them personally, though I’m going to try. If I don’t manage, I just want to reiterate: thank you all. You are making a difference.
Glad to hear that you are now in touch with folks who really can help detangle this.
Good luck!
I wouldn’t bother fighting GW on this. Just argue your case directly to Amazon. Show them the preponderance of evidence that is contrary to GW’s position and demand that they put your book back up and let you deal with any legal repercussions. Then you can forward the same letter to GW and politely tell them you’ll counter-sue for damages if they push it.
If you read her previous posts on the subject you would be aware that she’d already spoken with Amazon directly and gone into talk with GW. Amazon decided to back up GW, despite their obviously fraudulent claims, and Ms. Hogarth is at the point where she either has to take legal action or her novel never sees the light of day.
Their claims are ludicrous but they are not fraudulent. The USPTO issued them a registration as did, apparently, the UK trademark authority. Trademark registrations are presumed valid once issued. They are allowed to take advantage of that presumption and any assertion as to their rights in the registered trademark which is even within hailing distance of reality is permitted under the law.
The mark should never have have been registered, and it hasn’t got a snowball’s chance in Hell of surviving any kind of court challenge, but it was and until that happens (or the PTO cancels the registration) they are entirely within their rights to act as if it were an actual real trademark.
The trademarks were issued for games, not books, and there is a fairly significant difference in that.
I am absolutely certain that GW could not show that they own the term “space marines” given that it predates their existence by 30 years, and has been consistently used in boko titles as well as in science fiction books of various sources in the interim.
If the EFF thing doesn’t work out, I would be happy to assist Ms. Hogarth. I’m an IP attorney as well, though not a trademark specialist.
Not strictly true, they only hold the trademark rights for hobby gaming, materials and computer games. They hold no trademarks for use in literature. However they should never have been granted the trademark in the first place as it was already a generic term in hobby gaming before GW used it. It’s no surprise though as they claim to hold the trademark for the use of Orc, Dwarf, Elf and Halfling in hobby gaming. Words that are so blatantly generic in fantasy as to make their trademarks irrelevant.
Actually, it seems Amazon switched to MCA’s side. The book’s back up. :lol:
My hope is that you can have the mark against you (with Amazon) expunged- that seems like a nasty price to pay, with no recourse, for something that’s not even a fault.
Have you considered using Kickstarter to get money for legal fees?
^^^Second the Kickstart idea! Hopefully however, it won’t have to resort to that. I personally hope that GW sees that it is making a vast mistake, and are big enough to apologise and step down. It could be a chance for them to engage in the marketplace, with fans even.
We shall have to wait and see.
Perhaps a petition; how many people would be willing to boycott GW goods? :twisted:
With Support,
In discussion on this elsewhere, GW’s hardline definition of Space Marines as a boys-only clone club came up. That may explain why they targeted your book in particular, given that the titular Spots is a woman Marine.
Food for thought, or fuel for wild speculation, however it is taken, they have a history of blatant sexism that they are not interested in altering.
3rd the Kickstart or some other crowdfunding site. I would gladly kick in a little to help you. And I love Game Workshop and 40K, but they can’t own the title “Space Marine” that’s like Disney trademarking the word “Mouse”. Oh and I’m sure they have tried.
3rd the crowdfund idea. I would kick in some for sure. Love 40k and Games Workshop, and their lawyers are doing what they are supposed to be doing. But they are a little misguided, no one can own the term “space marine” that would be like Disney owning the word “mouse”.
I’m glad that EFF is taking your case. I was ready to donate whatever spare moneys I could find in my couch to the “Help MCA Hogarth Tell GW Where to… well, you get ther point, Fund.”
There’s discussion about this at The Passive Voice: http://www.thepassivevoice.com/02/2013/games-workshop-trademark-bullying-goes-thermonuclear-now-they-say-you-cant-use-space-marine-in-science-fiction/#comments
Oh, good grief! I have only just heard about this, but it’s outrageous. I will go and buy a copy from Smashwords right now, and hope it all rebounds to your benefit.
To think I used to like Games Workshop! I shan’t be buying stuff from them in future. :roll:
The attorney you’re talking to should be on top of this but you should know that in November, GW had their trademark dilution claims against Chapterhouse thrown out by summary judgment.
http://ia700405.us.archive.org/18/items/gov.uscourts.ilnd.250791/gov.uscourts.ilnd.250791.258.0.pdf
http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.com/2013/02/space-marines.html
Man, what a load of—! I feel for you. Another avenue you might consider (I don’t see it mentioned here) is via SFWA. They have (a) GriefCom, the grievance committee, which helps authors with disputes against publishers/etc.; and (b) the Legal Fund, which can help members with funds for legal troubles. There’s already a thread going in the SFWA forums but if you’re a member (or eligible), this could be a productive approach. (I’ve also suggested in the forums that even if you’re not a member, this is clearly of interest to members, and I thus encouraged SFWA to look into it.)
Good luck with it!
Ack! The thought that I might not be able to get an ebook copy threw me into a panic.
I loved it online, put it on the ‘to get some day’ list, and forgot.
When it seemed the ebook might NOT be available, I rushed over to Smashwords to get a copy (hope a lot of people do the same). It is now safely downloaded to my computer where I can read it when I want to.
Hope you get lots of publicity – the good kind – from this specious attack by a bully claiming a common term as their property.
And Amazon lost the sale (I would normally buy it there).
They should be careful who they pick on – good writers have FRIENDS.
http://www.bigshinyrobot.com/reviews/archives/48490
When I purchase the paperback for my husband, Jeff Berry, who posted about the situation on his blog, Chirine’s Workbench, would there be any chance of getting it autographed? I’d be willing to pay the postage both ways. Please e-mail if you are willing to do that, but no rush since I still have to get the book.
Also, have you considered offering a signed bookplate for sale as a fundraiser? Just a thought.
Just bought Spots the Space Marine for our Nook account, via Barnes & Noble. Screw you, Amazon and GW.
I just wish we could get the ebook autographed somehow. Darn technology.
Just bought Spots on Smashwords -1 Amazon +1 MCA :mrgreen:
Please let us know if there is a fighting fund established, I would love to help in whatever small way I can.
As a fellow indie writer I hope you triumph through this situation. It’s shameful what they are trying to attempt.
I’d like to point out section b. of How to Use Trademark Law to Create Multiple Passive Income Streams & Avert Legal Battles, which cites relevant case law. Read it carefully and draw your own conclusions…
I’m glad to hear that things are hopefully moving in the right direction.
In case they are not, these guys > http://www.newmediarights.org
might be able to help without it costing too much:
New Media Rights provides free and reduced fee legal services to individuals, non-profits, and small businesses that have questions regarding Internet, media, and intellectual property law.
Good luck!
http://www.bryanyoungfiction.com/2013/02/of-trademarks-and-space-marines.html
I have an idea about this!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpaceMarine
“Space Marines first turn up in the short story “Captain Brink of the Space Marines” by Bob Olsen in Amazing Stories Volume 7, Number 8, of November 1932″
…also references this case…
No reply necessary. Good luck!
Shame on games workshop……could you say use Lulu.com, realise a paperback version of the book, with ISBN etc, then realise it as a e book??? Could you bamboozle GW that way??
Ma’am,
have you seen this conversation thread on TMP?:
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=295136
Note the prior use of the term “Space Marines” by FGU and FanTac, and the use of the term in 1930s pulp sci-fi.
IMHO “Games Sweatshop” may want everyone to believe that they invented the term “space marine(s)”" as surely as their hackneyed marketing hyperbole carries on as if the miniature wargaming hobby never existed prior to “Games Sweatshop’s” articles of incorporation and all of the hundreds of other manufacturers large and small are just miserable, envious imitators, however that doesn’t change the empirical fact that “space marine(s)” is a generic term dating back to the 1930s, and has been used to death by sci-fi novelists, writers, and wargames alike ever since.
IMHO this situation is a microcosm of a broader effort by corporate entities to control anything and everything including that most precious of human treasures, creativity. This is done simply to satisfy the insatiable avarice of a relatively small number of overwhelmingly male, corporate, self-anointed aristocrats for whom money is their chosen deity, and avarice both their catechism and their state of religious rapture. The corporate attitude which IMHO GW clearly shares is that if it can be used for profit, it must be controlled, and any other possible creative activity which may even remotely challenge that status quo must be crushed if it cannot be subverted. If a creative idea can be seized upon and claimed as the corporation’s exclusive property much like Columbus “discovered” America, well, this is just the corporation exercising their God-given “right” to engage in its own for-profit “free market” version of La Conquista, and those who object are merely “envious” of the company executive’s “success.” This is Social Darwinism at its basest, most despicable level, and IMHO it is demonstrably at the core of Games Workshop’s attitude towards artists such as yourself and the works you craft from the written word.
Respectfully,
Leland R. Erickson
My blog post here, 19th Dec
http://johnstoysoldiers.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/space-marines-and-slavers.html
I am a wargame writer and SF writer at Baen.
Mr. Lambshead,
some additional FYI concerning the use of the term “space marine(s)” in the wargaming world:
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=295136
Note the publication dates of the two editions of the sci-fi miniature wargame rules Space Marines…
Respectfully,
Leland R. Erickson
Can we start calling them Games Orkshop now? :evil:
Bryan: I’m In.
http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.com/2013/02/epic-citadel-of-space-marines.html
(GW also asserts they have trademarked “epic” and “citadel”)
Just bought the paperback on BN and the e-book on Smashwords. Looking forward to reading it.
I must say that a lot of my reaction to this issue is the arrogance of Games Workshop.
This cease and desist letter from Jack Daniels is an example, to me at least, of a letter that invites cooperation, not antagonism. As is mentioned in the comments, the letter explains why Jack Daniels has to defend their trademark and what steps the person needs to take to make things right. They don’t blame the person, and even offer to help offset any costs.
As the old saying goes “You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.”
Purchased a copy from Smashwords. F*** GW.
In addition to Smashwords, be sure to list the book over on DriveThruFiction.com as well. We’d be happy to have it available.
As a long time (15yrs+) Games Workshop collector and customer, and as a writer, the way that they have thrown around their legal clout in your Space Marine case offends me.
Coming from inside the hobby, I can say that this is not the first time that the company has threatened legal action to stifle creativity that they deemed to veer into their perceived spheres of control. Every time they do it, they win without a fight because no one has the financial resources to resist them.
(well, except for the case of Chapter House Studios recently, who received pro-bono legal services to resist Games Workshop. Might be worth looking up, if you’re interested)
It is a horrible way for them to wield their finances and legal might when, at it’s core, their business promotes creative arts like painting and sculpting. What’s more, I don’t think I am the only Games-Workshop-affiliated artist who would feel this way.
If there is any kind of kickstarter or similar campaign to donate legal funds for you to fight this good fight, I will be the first donation. What’s more, I will happily rouse the Games Workshop community rabble on your behalf.
Honestly.
I’m by no means a big name in the community, but I know where there community resides online, and I have an idea who to talk to.Please do not hesitate to contact me with anything I can do to help.
That this has happened to you is nothing short of outrageous. I have been a Games Workshop customer for more years than I care to mention, and for whatever it is worth I have sent a polite email to their legal department requesting that they change their position on this issue and rescind their claim to trademark of such a commonplace phrase within science fiction that has an established history decades older than Games Workshop itself.
I really hope that they come to their senses on this, and that everything works out for you.
Amazon has put it back up, at least for now.
I wonder if Amazon noticed the ruckus and decided to take a look at it — or if Baen (or some of the other SF-publishing houses) poked them with a Space Marine Stick, behind the… scenes. :twisted:
I’m glad it’s back — but I hope that a judge’s judgment can still be sought, lest GW come back with another takedown demand after we’ve all wandered off happily.
ditto the joy and ditto the desire to still get a legal ruling on this anyway, to prevent future shenanigans.
Double-checked, and yes, I see both paperback and ebook (kindle) version are up too!
Woohoo!
As a military sf writer and former US Marine, I salute you, MCA Hogarth.
I sampled a copy of Spots the Space Marine: Letters on Smashwords. I was hooked, and bought a copy.
Semper Fi!
Lael
Hi M.C.A Hogarth,
I’m an indie comic publisher and writer, and more importantly, a fan of the Space Marine in all its Sci-Fi glory. I’m one of a small band of comic creators who’re doing our bit for your cause by ‘changing’ our comic titles to state our opposition to Games Workshops actions. You can see them at –
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=539293992770519&set=a.277019245664663.80198.267100439989877&type=1&theater ,
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=469399603126063&set=a.274006245998734.70324.271284379604254&type=1&theater ,
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151355877736107&set=a.248137256106.140920.542831106&type=1&theater
Free the Space Marine!
Cheers,
Pat McNamara
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Space-Marine-Liberation-Front/140743696089502
Maybe it would be nice to see an anthology of Space Marine short stories, featuring our favourite star-truckin’ ass-kicking future soldiers told from many different perspectives, authors?
I just tipped the author some pocket money because I feel that the reasons for fighting the bully are right. I know it’s not much, but everyone who pitches in makes the fight a little easier, I hope :)
I cannot see how if it went to court Games Workshop could possiblly win.
the phrase ‘space marine/s’ has been in general usage in the english language since at least the 1930′s. this seems more like a case of GW using their financial muscle to intimidate.
In most cases, these are not about actually going to court and winning – merely looming over the little guy in hopes that they just shrink away and disappear.
It looks as though Amazon has relented in light of the attention, but it is important to still follow up and seek a declaratory judgment in order to prevent them from bringing suit in a far flung local to increase legal fees on the little guy.
this made major uk news now – spread the bbc love via twitter et al ^^
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21380003
Hello,
Thank You for the link to Smashwords. I just purchased your book, ‘Spots the Space Marine’ to support you and to protest GW. In the process, it looks like I have a wonderful piece of fiction to read.
Linked to you from the Beeb, who’ve picked it up. I think GW are going to start backing away from this one pretty soon.
http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.com/2013/02/space-marines_8.html
Looks like Amazon has the Kindle version back up. Congratulations!!!
It is cool that Amazon put it back up. Now the interesting question is why.
Was it:
1. That they recognized that as a trademark violation, it wasn’t something that they were legally required to take down immediately. If it were a copyright violation, they would have to take it down as per the DMCA.
Or…
2. Did Games Workshop actually notice the bad publicity, and tell Amazon to put it back up?
If 2, it’s over. If 1, we get to go through this all over again later when they get their legal ducks in a row.
If #2, it’s not over till they send a legal letter to the author that they don’t find her book to be infringing. (And even then, it may not be over for the term “space marine” in the US, until a judge issues a statement…)
A note on #1: according to my spouse — who’s been looking up all this stuff — DMCA does have a requirement that things can go back up if the author is willing to swear, under threat of perjury, that it’s not a copyright violation. (Then the court gets to sort it out…) In the case of trademark violations, though, there’s no such recourse nor requirement that there be a procedure by which the author can say, “No trademark violation here! Put it up till the courts decide, please.” Nor is there apparently a DMCA-mandated safe harbor for complying with takedown requests based on trademark — see http://www.aaronsanderslaw.com/blog/space-amazons-space-marines-and-the-non-existant-trademark-takedown-notification …
http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.com/2013/02/space-marines-ii.html
Purchased a copy of Spots from Amazon – looking forward to reading it.
We must support fellow writers!!
From what I found on another discussion, Amazon quietly put the book back online. Of course, the info could be bogus too.
http://madgeniusclub.com/2013/02/07/games-workshop-says-all-your-space-marine-are-belong-to-us-mwahahahaha/#comment-22898
Not to defend GW, but please remember this…
If you do not vigorously defend a patent or trademark, you will LOSE it. That’s trademark law in a nutshell. You HAVE to defend it. You don’t have a choice.
Of course, working something out, or withdrawing is always appropriate.
GW’s in house lawyers are just doing what they’re paid to do. Don’t blame GW so much, blame the way the laws are. And blame the patent office for not doing a good enough review of their application.
Here is a quote from Heinlein’s _Space Cadet_, mentioning space marines.
“He liked the spit and polish way with which the space marines did things, the strutting self-confidence with which they handled themselves. There was no more resplendent sight in the solar system than an old space marine sergeant in full dress, covered with stripes, hash marks and ribbons, the silver in his temples matching the blazing sunburst on his chest.”
-Robert A. Heinlein (1907 – 1988)
_Space Cadet_ c. 1948